At least rhetorically, the politically conservative approach to economics was once associated with lower taxes, deregulation of the economy, cutting government spending, free trade and cutting the budget deficit (In reality, what conservatives have actually done when they have been in power has been different, but that was the governing philosophy). But all that seems to have changed in the last roughly half decade. There’s been a lingering and visible tension between the old-school free-market-y conservatism, and a different “populist” approach that’s largely, though not exclusively, associated with Donald Trump. And that tension has made it hard to answer the question: “What is conservative economics now?” If, or when, Republicans are in power again, what policies will they pursue? What will conservative pundits and policymakers and economists advise them to do?

Cardiff has no idea anymore. So he invited Karl Smith, an economist and columnist at Bloomberg, to the show. Together they discuss how conservative economics has shifted on the issues of trade, immigration, the deficit, entitlement spending, and more.